[Grounded1]

Hi all,
To spare everybody the most common info of threads like this one, I'm a new welder with a new Lincoln SW 200, w a new bottle of 100% argon.

What is pictured/utilized has been 0.9" 6061 Al plate, 2% lanth/blue 3/32" tungsten, and #7 and #8 gas lenses.

My first 2 runs EVER looked like this:


Chronologically, the bottom run was just using the torch only, no filler. Machine settings were 80A, 73% AC freq, no pulse, 120hz, 20cfh, ground clamp on table. The upper portion was me trying to start to add filler to the puddle with same machine settings.

The next day, I try to strike an arc with the same settings and get this (bottom corner area)


Trying to move the torch along results in this


The arc is simply out of control, jumping everywhere, despite having good torch angle and distance of tungsten to plate. Went through a whole stick of tungsten breaking off the blackened, dirty ends to fresh parts then ground to dull point with every attempt and subtle changes in machine setting. There is no change when I have the ground clamp on the Al plate vs on the work table. The heat of the arc even seems to jump 90 deg from the gas lens opening extending about 1-2 inches towards me and my hand regardless of torch angle (vertical, tipped away from me, tipped towards, used in either hand).

Initially I was working 4 ft from the front of the machine and wondered if the fan was causing drafts/turbulence. I move to be as far as the torch cable allows and get this:



Upper attempts at 100A caused the metal to melt VERY quickly without any appreciable puddle to form. Just crackled, dark stuff resulting.

Tried amps ranging all the way down to 60 and still got near burn-through of the plate except that it obviously took longer to happen. No usable puddle forming. Experimented with gas flow ranging from 8-30cfh, AC freq from 110-130hz, AC balance from 60% (minimum allowed on machine) to 80%. All with similar results.

I can hear gas flow out from the torch as I push the pedal. I haven’t put soap water on the connections to check for leaks...but have double checked all connections for firmness (all snug but not overtight/too loose).

I’ve heard of folks complain about “bad gas” w a tank not being properly labeled or inadequately purged before argon added. Do you think I’m getting results consistent with a gas issue?

I've watched various vids of instances where MIG gas was used but am not seeing the same dazzle of sparks...just armageddon happening beneath the torch

Appreciate any help. Thanks!

[cj737]

First off, NEVER break your tungsten. Grind it in half. When you break it, you create longitudinal fractures up it’s length, and that plays havoc with your arc.

Grind the tip inline not perpendicular to the tungsten. And create a sharper angle than a dull point. You can blunt the tip if you desire, but the tip should be smoothly tapered. If you have fouled the tungsten, then be sure to clean enough of it to remove any ally residue that is up the shaft.

Stickout length. When learning ally, it’s best to keep the tip of your tungsten just barely protruding past the lip of the cup. Keep your arc length (tungsten to work distance) equal to the diameter of the filler you’re using.

Amps. 80-100 amps is pretty low. Crank it up to 140 and use the pedal to taper off after you get a puddle. AC balance of 68-70 is pretty good almost always. Frequency is less important for flat beads. (I hope you meant 0.090 thickness plate too, not 0.9”). If the material is truly 0.9” then you are WAY TOO LOW in amps.

The black soot forming is often associated with too long an arc length, and insufficient heat. Get closer, stomp the pedal and get your puddle. Once you’ve welded a sting or two, let the material cool or quench it in water (for practice pieces only). Heat saturation is a significant issue with ally. It plays havoc with your following beads because the material is already very hot and the puddle runs out.

[Grounded1]

Cheers
Grind in half, meaning use a diamond wheel or metal cutting wheel on a grinder?
When I sharpen the tip, I spin it with a drill with the tungsten tip pointing towards the top of the wheel, all parallel. How do you blunt the tip without it grabbing?

Yes, typo, 0.09"

[tungstendipper]

Cheers
Grind in half, meaning use a diamond wheel or metal cutting wheel on a grinder?
When I sharpen the tip, I spin it with a drill with the tungsten tip pointing towards the top of the wheel, all parallel. How do you blunt the tip without it grabbing?

Yes, typo, 0.09"

Spin it slow with a drill or fingers, and yes, tip pointing to the top of the wheel. Apply light pressure and it won't grab.
I thought the same thing. Make sure you also move the tungsten side to side on the wheel, or you will make a groove in your wheel very quickly!

[cj737]

Cheers
Grind in half, meaning use a diamond wheel or metal cutting wheel on a grinder?
How do you blunt the tip without it grabbing?

Yes, use the edge of the grinding wheel to lay the tungsten against, spinning it slightly to grind it in half.
When you turn off the grinder, just lightly touch the tip to the wheel as it slows, holding perpendicular to the wheel's radius.

One thing about 2% lanthanated and AC, in my experience you can run these tungstens with a pretty sharp point depending upon how much amperage you're using, and where your AC balance is set. The lower the balance (towards 60) the more the tip "tears up".

I am fortunate though. My machine allows me to set my balance very low, and I sharpen my tungsten, then set my balance to 30, gently ball my tungsten, then reset the balance to 65-72 depending upon material, and weld away. Its a habit that I don't know whether its needed anymore, but its how I learned and I haven't steered from it. This allows me to get a stable arc at low amps, keep it clean and accurate, and I can weld a good long while before I need to tune the tip again. Especially at high amps (170+).

I will also add: if you are starting out at welding, learning on aluminum is a TALL TASK. Better for you to learn on steel. Its easier, the mechanics are the same, and machine parameters are much simpler. Grab some 1/8"-3/8" stock, flip over to DC, and get cranking. Learning to watch the puddle, feed filler, and keep your torch "right" is what you need to learn. Ally comes second.

Aluminum has an oxide layer on it, hence the need for AC current to break through it so you can weld the base material. But oxidation melts at 2700* while aluminum base melts closer to 700*. So by the time you crack the oxidation, your base is already "goo". Thats why you get burn through if it takes to long to get a puddle. You're cooking the ally inside-out. Set you heat up. Romp the pedal, break through the oxide, add filler, then taper your pedal off until you just keep the puddle wet. Then dab, move, and repeat. Sounds easy, its hard as a witch's heart for beginners (and us other mortals).

Hope some of that diatribe helps

[AxleIke]

I had a very similar problem with the same machine. After watching a TON of Jody's videos, I found that I had my Argon flow WAY too high.

I have been having good success with a no. 7 gas lens at about 12 CFH. On thicker than 1/8", I also followed his suggestions and got some He. I set the Ar at 10 in that case, and just every so slightly get the ball moving on the Helium. It was worked very well on 1/4" plate.

I noticed in your first post you said you had 20 cfh. Try between 10 and 13. See if it helps.

Not sure if it helps, but I've been running 80-90 hz, 70% balance which seems to work well for 16ga, 11ga, and 1/4" (amperage varied according, of course).

EDIT: Apologies, just saw that you had tried different gas flows. Nevermind.

Finally, I also have had better luck when I first scrub the plate with a stainless brush vigorously, until it is clearly dull and there is plenty of dust. I usually hit the edges with a deburring tool. And then I wipe everything, INCLUDING my filler wire, with acetone. I usually wipe the plate until the paper towel comes off fairly clean.

I know people can weld it without cleaning just fine, but I had a heck of a time (I'm just starting out on Aluminum), and doing the cleaning really helped. I probably go overboard, but it helped me get my puddle started more easily, and I found I was blowing the metal away much less (though it still happens on the end of joints, but I'm getting better).

[Grounded1]

Thanks all for tips thus far!

What ended up helping for a few runs was to clean the plate as suggested and turn down the gas flow to 8-10cfh. When I set my regulator to 15+cfh on subsequent runs, the puddle was immediately contaminated and arc less stable....I was still using a tungsten that I had snapped to reset and after I had gone to clean another area of the plate, I came back to oxidated puddles and lots of yellow dusting, which I've heard indicates dirt tungsten...?

I will try cleaning the Al a bit more thoroughly, using a tungsten that has been cut vs snapped and report back

[cj737]

I’ve seen people report issue with too much gas flow, but I personally have never suffered it. I run 18-20 all the time with a #8 cup on steel and ally. No issues. Too little flow is more likely a contributing factor than too much. Especially if your arc length (distance from tungsten to material) is too far.

I can run 100% Argon or 75Ar/25He at the same pressures and get equal results. So I don’t have any idea why you’d see a problem at 12-25cfh.

[Poland308]

Are you relying on the gauge style indicator for determining your flow rate? Or a ball type flow meter? If your using the gauge it would be likely that it’s just reading that far off.

[Grounded1]

Are you relying on the gauge style indicator for determining your flow rate? Or a ball type flow meter? If your using the gauge it would be likely that it’s just reading that far off.

I have the gauge-style indicator that came w the unit. In the future, I will probably get a ball-type meter in the future as I transition to other metals and thicknesses of material but, for now, it seems my issue with gas coverage is less significant.

Some latest developments (or lack thereof), new thoughts, and a new plan (FYI I may come across as a paranoid/delusional, but bear with me).

What I did today:
I scoured the Al plate w a dedicated SS wire brush for probably more than 80 passes per sq inch and in varied directions to ensure I didn't miss a spot. I then wiped and wiped and wiped and wiped with an acetone-damp parts of a rag until the plate wiped clean. I generously cut away above the dirty part of the tungsten in the torch and re-sharpened all while using earlier suggested methods. Set the machine to what worked well before and SPLAT, dirty weld with lots of yellow dust deposits on the first go. Repeated attempts at cutting the tungsten back and re-grinding gave the same results.

Thoughts:
I am thinking the aluminum is clean enough.
I believe the cutting of the tungsten vs breaking it has solved my crazily jumping arc problem
I believe that I am contaminating the freshly cut tungsten with material embedded in my diamond grinding wheel that I use for sharpening.

Now for the paranoid crazy part...

I unboxed the machine and set it up for the first time. I set the machine up in an arbitrary way and ran some (IMHO) decent lines without filler (and that was even on UNCLEAN aluminum). I did stick the tungsten accidentally to the plate and went to grind the dirty part off. That was exactly when my woes started. My return to getting "decent" but not as good as the initial runs were on a brand-new stick of tungsten that I did sharpen....Then subsequent attempts with that tungsten gave me the dirty results because I suspect my grinding wheel is depositing contaminants back into the tungsten during sharpening.




While I completely accept the fact that I am a newb and know very little theory, I refuse to call myself a total spaz and attribute the issues completely to arc distance and angle. I feel confident in my dexterity for at least the 0.5" charred runs I've made to assert that.

I will test my hypothesis by changing my workflow in tungsten prep to minimize pre-arc contamination. I am purchasing a new grinding wheel that will be used exclusively for sharpening clean tungsten. No more grinding away dirty tips. I am also going to use a dedicated cutting wheel to cut across clean tungsten (not through the dirty stuff). I'm hoping this practice will both solve my arc jumping issue and also my powdery welds.

The only other option I can think of right now would be to have an experienced tig welder come, prep materials, and weld all while using my equipment and see if they can produce quality beads. This would be great too because it'd prove my crazy thoughts incorrect and show that the issues are, indeed, purely user error.

I will report back once testing is completed.

[cj737]

Is this latest test with, or without filler? The beads show a lack of cleaning by your machine (the oxide layer is not completely dissolved and moved out of the weld area) and insufficient amps still. What settings was the machine when you did these passes?

If the material is 1/8", please try: AC Balance of 65%, 150Hz, 170 Amps. Whack the pedal, get your puddle, and move forward in distinct, 1/8" movements and pause. Do this without filler. Then next to it, repeat the same with filler. Post that picture.

Also, if this latest test was done with filler, please wipe down your filler material with acetone. Your description of material prep is excessive. Good to be clean, but unless that material was sitting outside for 20 years, a few rubs with a SS brush and a quick wipe is sufficient. If its new material, heck I'd weld it without any prep (because its practice material).

It almost looks like your welding ally on DC by the way. Be 100% sure your machine is switching to AC. Crank the Freq up and listen. Does it scream at you? It should, especially at 150Hz. At 250Hz its unbearable...

[AxleIke]

After watching a ton of videos, I stopped worrying about contaminated tungsten. My best results have been with using a 120 grit belt on my belt grinder. I use a drill and run it backwards. This gives a very smooth grind and small grooves. I also stopped blunting the tip. I let it ball on its own which seems to give a more consistent arc.

Just something that has helped me.

What is your stick out length on the most recent beads?

[AxleIke]

Is this latest test with, or without filler? The beads show a lack of cleaning by your machine (the oxide layer is not completely dissolved and moved out of the weld area) and insufficient amps still. What settings was the machine when you did these passes?

If the material is 1/8", please try: AC Balance of 65%, 150Hz, 170 Amps. Whack the pedal, get your puddle, and move forward in distinct, 1/8" movements and pause. Do this without filler. Then next to it, repeat the same with filler. Post that picture.

Also, if this latest test was done with filler, please wipe down your filler material with acetone. Your description of material prep is excessive. Good to be clean, but unless that material was sitting outside for 20 years, a few rubs with a SS brush and a quick wipe is sufficient. If its new material, heck I'd weld it without any prep (because its practice material).

It almost looks like your welding ally on DC by the way. Be 100% sure your machine is switching to AC. Crank the Freq up and listen. Does it scream at you? It should, especially at 150Hz. At 250Hz its unbearable...

150 Hz is the max on his machine.

One thing that popped into mind reading this post RE the DC: are the torch and ground in the correct ports?

[Grounded1]

No filler used on the tests
I will try those settings and post pics of the result.

Stick out is always <0.25”

Machine is set up AC with electrode negative. Ground cable on posi. Yes, the audible arc tone changes to be higher pitches as I adjust the freq
Unfortunately I can only run 120A max as I’m plugged into 120v...hoping to get wired for 240 in the coming weeks

I think the same thing about contamination after watching so many videos...yet it’s almost comical how contaminated my pools are despite attempting to mimic what I just watched give good looking welds with far less apparent prep.

[cj737]

Switch your machine over to DC and do some steel beads. Then switch back to AC and do some ally. Post both pictures.

[Grounded1]

Test results per cj's suggestions:
Machine setup at 120A (max avail right now), 150hz, 65% AC freq


Gas flow meter while pedal is depressed


Cleaned and prep'd metal area before welding


Brand-new electrode, just sharpened


1st run, no filler, moving right to left/pushing w right hand


What tungsten looks like after 1st run complete


2nd run, no filler, same direction, tungsten NOT touched between attempts


Prep'd new area of aluminum:


1st run w Blue Demon ER4043 1/16" filler, wiped w acetone prior to weld


Tungsten after attempting filler run


Re-sharpened tungsten:


2nd run with same filler wire, burned thru plate by end despite same travel speed/settings as w/o filler


Re-sharpened tungsten, tried going back to making runs w/o filler, same machine settings, worse results



For steel and DC test, I didn't really have anything besides some 0.02" thick SS sheetmetal, box lid-shaped, scrap. Tungsten was re-sharpened, dedicated SS wire brush to metal (not one used for Al), acetone wipedown

Initial machine settings at 35A DCEN resulted in total burn through on the start


Final machine settings at 15A DCEN


Runs w/o filler (I have none for ss, currently), pushing w right hand from right to left



Tungsten after ss runs


On a side note, not having had any prior exp w welding before this, the complete silence of welding w DC was soooo pleasant vs the buzz of AC

[cj737]

Your tungsten shows a lack of gas flow. It should not be colored purple after welding. The purpose of "post flow" is to cool the tungsten, and shield the weld (if desired/required). All of your welds appear to have a lack of shielding.

I also think its odd that on DC, your tungsten is being torn apart

One other thing you need to inspect is the gas lens screen. Remove the cup, and verify that the screen is not littered with contamination that is obstructing the flow of gas. If you dipped a lot in earlier tries, this will happen. Once that screen is buggered up, its often best to ditch it. Some lenses allow a replacement of the screen end only, but, it all depends upon whose lens you're using. The inside of your cup shows lots of goop which is why I encourage you to look at the lens itself.

[TNFitterWelder865]

Hey guys,

Relatively new to the whole tig process. Had a quick question as far as tungsten goes. How do you know what kind of tungsten to use and when? personally I've just always used 1/8" red but no idea what to use the lanthanated vs ceriated vs pure for. Any thoughts?

[Poland308]

You have a gas issue! Either low flow ( you can buy a flow tester that you hold over the end of thetorch)
https://www.amazon.com/XCSOURCE-Peashoo ... dpSrc=srch

. A possible leak in a hose or fitting allowing air to be drawn in. Possible that your colit has gotten pinched and is not allowing flow. Or you have bad gas/ or the wrong gas.
On the aluminum it looks like you, aren’t on ac and your not breaking down the oxidation layer / or you don’t have enough amps. The white film inside your cup is definitely a gas issue

[AxleIke]

The bottle is for sure 100% Argon?

I once had a guy try to give me 75/25 because he thought it was “better” for tig welding. Don’t get filled there any more.

I very much doubt gas bottle colors are consistent throughout the country and especially the world but here, the 75/25 is always painted silver and 100% argon is always brown. Another welding supply guy told me it was to help avoid mixups. I noticed your bottle is silver which stuck out to me since silver sits on the my MIG cart and brown on the TIG. Again, I doubt it’s consistent elsewhere but just a thought.

[robtg]

Contaminated argon.

[cj737]

Contaminated argon.

I don’t think so. If you go back to his first post, you can see the initial weld without filler ran fine. It was only after that first day his shielding became an issue. He swapped tungstens, switched up the machine, but hasn’t (to my knowledge) swapped lenses. He does have a gas problem, but I think it’s equipment not tank related.

[Grounded1]

I hear and feel gas coming from the torch when the pedal is depressed. My tank sticker does say “argon.” I will try swapping my gas lens for the oem torch parts and see if it helps the welds

Much appreciating all the help

[Poland308]

A collect that is pinched will make a gas flow sound but not give proper gas flow.

[Grounded1]

PROBLEM SOLVED
(not to say my welds are anything near serviceable or anything)

I took apart the torch and stubby lens kit to reveal this on the collet body


Set machine up as before: 120A, 65%, 150hz, 10cfh during pedal depression
Cut off dirty tungsten in a vice w grinder cutting wheel
Sharpened using the diamond wheel
Rebuilt torch using oem parts w 7 cup


Here's the Al surface to start with


Run 1 no filler, much better...still dirtier than I think is ideal, but much better than previously


Run 1 and 2 together


Tungsten after runs 1 and 2 on aluminum/AC


Run 1 and 2 with filler attempts...obviously need lots more practice w coordination and timing here, but better



Onto the sheet metal ss, 15A turned to 20A, even tried pulse at 2/sec by the bottom runs (first runs on top)


Thank you to everybody who bothered to look at my mess and give the great constructive feedback. Very much appreciated.


Now, is there a way to effectively clean a dirty collet body like mine or is it garbage now needing replacement??